You’re right that the phrases about the “freedoms we enjoy” trip rather easily off the tongue, without a whole lot of critical thought. It’s clear that military action by “your” country and “mine” has often – but by no means always – contributed to a lessening of tyranny in our world. That outcome – if not always the means – seems worthy of thanksgiving. I guess the freedom uppermost in my mind is the freedom to assemble in the name of Jesus Christ, without fear that the secret police (or a lynch mob) are about to drag away the speaker.

Your post that you linked to makes good reading. The US fixation on the “land of the free” looks kind-of hollow from here, sometimes; it’s not a concept folks here dwell on very much. But then, we didn’t have a revolution .

Anyhow, you’ve given me food for thought. Thanks.

I avoided it for a while too, but since I’ve been reading it, I realized I was missing out. Shane takes time to say that this “revolution” business isn’t some overhyped three-day convention where the term is tossed around and all that stuff. You’re right, “revolution” is really a whored-out term that doesn’t carry much weight today (forgive my bluntness, but EVERYTHING is a revolution it seems these days). Shane focuses on the fact that this “revolution” has been going on for thousands of years and it happens when ordinary people simply obey Jesus and grasp God’s vision for the world. In some great irony, one of his chapters is titled, “Growing Smaller and Smaller until we Take Over the World.”

Though there are some blah parts (what book doesn’t have those?), I certainly would recommend it. It really has affected me deeply.

Andrew,

My fellow citizen in England. You certainly do understand some of the context, judging from the story of your trip. What has taken place, by and large, is in a society without an official church, the state has stepped in and become the religion. This may be a difference by law only, since in establishment contexts the church and the state are deeply intertwined, with the state having the most power to spread the message of it as central importance. In many contexts in America, the Sundays before Memorial Day and the 4th of July become America Day (and, by extension, Military Day). My friend Dustin has had an experience in a church of a giant American flag rippling in the background as the folks sang a medley of patriotic songs. At the end, a soldier fully kitted up in military uniform came up on stage and saluted the crowd, and they gave a standing ovation. In my local context, a church recited the Pledge of Allegiance, sang the Battle Hymn of the Republic, and saluted the American flag placed prominently in the front of the room. That’s the context for me.

In regards to Memorial Day, it’s very different from your “Remembrance Day” (if your description of the holiday is accurate that it intentionally includes military personnel, civilians, and enemies too). I doubt the last two are emphasized with any consistency, but you certainly can correct me on that. What I take issue with in your context and mine is this; what are these “freedoms we enjoy”? And more specifically, does military action always contribute to stabilizing society and the world? If we’re talking about freedom,here’s some of my thoughts (guided by a hero, Stanley Hauerwas) on what that “freedom” looks like in America. Maybe you can identify what “freedom” looks like to you. I’d suggest there’s a Biblical one and a cultural one and they’re very different. In the interests of encouraging a good conversation here, I won’t ramble any further.

Kevin,
The feedback has been across the spectrum, with some telling me this was an important reminder and others saying they can’t be a part of a church that says things like this. I’ve visited homes and had some reasonable and some not-so-reasonable discussions with folks. All in all, it’s been a good opportunity to talk. If you knew my context in the depth of relationship with folks at Middle River, it certainly was controversial. We’re much more generic evangelical than anything else, which makes us susceptible to thinking John Hagee and Jerry Falwell are talking (or in Jerry’s case, did talk) sense.

I do believe that God has used the US armed forces for his purposes. I also do not believe a disciple of Jesus can faithfully serve in the armed forces. For one, the UCMJ that one swears to uphold as a soldier forsakes all other alliances and affirms that;

“I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me.”

If it is possible to kill justly (which I do not believe, but I am open to talk about), you swear away the commitment to consider just warfare and actions in the UCMJ. That’s a huge thing, I think, both considering Jesus’ teaching “Do not swear” and his position as Lord which forbids any other competing allegiances. I did intend the comment to be a bridge, but I believe it too…as long as that is applied to every other country across the board.

I hear what you’re saying in the last paragraph, and I think it’s wise…but I also think there is a time to leave diplomatic statements and prayers behind and state clearly our identity, lest we become confused about who we are (which we are). We need reminders that may jolt us a bit and in our instability bring us to ask; what really is our fundamental identity?

Alan,
I love how you put that. “I love America…and Jesus, too…sorta.” Ha! That’s good stuff right there. I’ve been reading Shane Claiborne’s book “The Irresistible Revolution” recently, and in his chapter “Pledging Allegiance when Kingdoms Collide,” his insight and Biblical commitment made tears well up in my eyes. God’s purposes are so so so so so much higher than America being more Biblical, they encompass the reconciliation, the redemption of all of creation. A creation (global) which he deeply and intimately loves. Thanks for your thoughts.

Your comments on God using the US armed forces for his purposes seem a little out of place for you. Was that intended to be a bit of a bridge between pacifists and just war folks in your congregation? I guess I could also interpret that as refering to relief work and not just warfare.

At our church there was no mention of Memorial Day last Sunday. But I don’t think it is anti-Christian to remember those who have died for any reason. Though I don’t venerate those who gave their lives for our “Our Country” because they are protecting my freedom, I do respect anyone that is willing to lay down their lives for a cause. If I was asked to pray for those who have lost their lives in battles, I would have to give equal time to praying for “our” troops and praying for “their’s” as well.

I visited friends in the USA for 4th July a few years ago. I expected a few jibes about the British, but I was rather disarmed by the singing, in a worship service, of “My Country ‘Tis of Thee”: the allegiance seemed entirely mis-placed (unless I misunderstood the words). I started to share this (and other, similar reservations) with my hosts (sincere, believing, largely apolitical, Evangelical folks), but could see I was getting nowhere, so bit my tongue. Does this resonate with you at all?

Meanwhile, the details of Memorial Day are not clear to me. Over here, we have “Remembrance Sunday”, which marks the armistice at the end of WW1. Although it’s very much a military event (and a minority regard it as unwanted and jingoistic), for most, it is an opportunity to remember the fallen (mainly from the British military, and the wider Commonwealth, but also civilians, and, for some, enemies too), an opportunity to give thanks for the freedoms we enjoy, an opportunity to pray for peace in the world, and, for many an opportunity to reflect that there has to be a better way. Giving time to that doesn’t seem a bad thing at all. Most Evangelicals that I know of would not give over their whole worship time to it, but would mark it, e.g. with two minutes’ silence, and maybe reflect on the many layers of meaning in Jesus’ saying “no one has greater love than this…”. Although it’s a national memorial, it is, for most people – if they have been touched by war at all – an intensely personal reflection.

My impression is that Memorial Day does not carry those broad overtones and shades of meaning, but I’d be interested to know…